Civilian Conservation
Corp (CCC) Oral History Project
Dates:
1933-1942 ( bulk )
Quantity:
23 oral history interviews
(33 audio cassettes, 581pp. of
transcripts and other documentation)
Collection Number:
Civilian Conservation Corp (CCC)—Heyburn State Park Oral
History Project
Summary:
The bulk of this project was conducted
from 1993 to 1995 by Oral Historian Linda Morton-Keithley and Architectural
Historian Lauren McCroskey of the Idaho State Historic Preservation Office
(SHPO). The purpose of the project was to document the development and the
construction of Heyburn State Park as undertaken by the CCC in the 1930’s, and
other CCC sites in Idaho.
Repository:
Idaho State Historical Society Public Archives and Research
Library
2205 Old Penitentiary Rd. Boise, ID 83712-8250 208-334-3356 - telephone 208-334-3198 - fax www.idahohistory.net
Languages:
English
Historical Note
The Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) was established on March 21,
1933 by Franklin Delano Roosevelt as part of the national effort to combat
unemployment during the Great Depression. The program, which was active in
building state parks, developing historical sites, and building wilderness
roads and bridges, declined in the late 1930s and finally dissolved after
Congress decided not to extend its funding in 1942. In the 1930’s, the Civilian
Conservation Corp used Heyburn State Park as a camp and built numerous
buildings for the park. Created in 1908, the park is the oldest state park in
the Pacific Northwest. Located south of Coeur d’Alene, it is comprised of 2,300
acres of water and 5,000 acres of land. Before the land became a park, the
Coeur d’Alene Indian tribe used the general area as a gathering place.
Narrators discussed their experiences with the CCC, including their
reasons for signing up, camp structure and discipline, job assignments,
off-duty activities and community relations, and life after the CCC. Most
narrators joined the CCC in an effort to make some money and gain skills and
experience that would enable them to make a living. Many enrollees had no job
prospects, were supporting family, or were trying to save up for marriage. The
CCC issued them clothing, free room and board, and paid them at least a dollar
per day. Enrollees sent sent most of the money directly to their parents.
Before enrolling, the boys had to interview, take a physical, and get
vaccinations. They were usually not informed where they would be working.
CCC camps were considered military service until about 1941 when they
were reclassified as civil service. The camps had a military structure with
fairly strict discipline. The physical camps were run by a company commander
supplied by the Army, while the Technical Services Director, typically a member
of the Forest Service, ran work duty. Enrollees were quartered in military
style barracks which held up to forty people. There was a roll call in the
morning and regular inspections, but few drills. The food was starchy and high
calorie, since the work was often heavy labor. Discipline was an important
aspect of the CCC. Ordinary disputes were often handled in the boxing ring,
while serious offences, such as theft or contracting venereal disease, were
reasons for dishonorable discharge. Camps typically consisted of enrollees from
the same part of the country, i.e. all New Yorkers or all Midwesterners. There
was a considerable cultural difference between Easterners and Westerners,
especially since many from the East had never lived in a rural area. Several
interviewees characterized the Easterners as naïve and unused to manual labor.
New Yorkers were typically perceived as quarrelsome and prone to destroying
equipment. Some characterized Easterners as parolees and school dropouts. While
there were minorities in some of the camps, African Americans and Native
Americans were typically segregated into separate camps in the later 1930s.
Work assignments were determined by interview. Work included building
and grading roads, constructing bridges and dams, firefighting, snow plowing,
dynamiting rock, sandbagging, and building campgrounds. Many tasks were
executed using temporary “spike” camps. Camp enrollees also performed
supportive jobs such as running supplies, transportation, cooking etc. Special
challenges included run-ins with wildlife such as bears and wild horses,
difficult weather conditions, and work accidents due to blasting or other heavy
equipment. Enrollees signed up for the CCC for six months and could renew for
up to three years. Some people lied about their age or signed up under a
different name to be able to work longer. Most enrollees enjoyed rapid
advancement.
Opportunities for recreation included dances, parties, and sports.
Enrollees played cards, gambled, and listened to the radio. The boys also went
fishing and hunting for elk, deer, and bear. Some even went prospecting for
gold. Many camps had impromptu movie theaters. Each camp had a camp library as
well as an educational advisor who facilitated a variety of educational
opportunities, including high school and college courses. These classes
included basic academics, such as reading and writing, as well as type writing
and cooking. About 30% of the enrollees made use of these classes, though many
were too tired to study after a day of manual labor. Many of the enrollees were
sexually active. The camps even drew prostitutes on paydays who camped out with
a mattress in a truck. Campers were careful to avoid certain girls who were
known to carry diseases. One interviewee mentioned the camp leaders showing
World War II movies about venereal disease as a deterrent.
After the CCC dissolved, many of the enrollees joined the military,
which was a good fit due to the similar command structure and the skills the
enrollees had acquired. Most interviewees expressed their satisfaction with
their experiences in the CCC, including the positive effect of the strict
discipline and close company of other young people. Several mentioned the CCC
as a key learning experience enabling them to have discipline and work hard,
deal with others, and resolve conflicts.
Content Description
The Civilian Conservation Corp (CCC) Oral History Collection consists
of tape-recorded interviews, transcripts, personal data records, indexes,
summaries, and signed release forms from 23 interviews with people who were
employed by the Civilian Conservation Corp (CCC) during the 1930s and 40s. The
interviews were collected primarily between 1993 and 1995 by Linda
Morton-Keithley and Lauren McCroskey, with some help from Tracy Stephens,
Sandra Hansen, William Tydeman, and Susan Karaba.
Use of the Collection
Restrictions on Access :
Collection is available for research
Restrictions on Use :
Copyright held by Idaho State Historical Society
Administrative Information
Related Materials :
See the numerous other research materials with the ISHS Public
Archives & Research Library, including the general book collection,
vertical files, microfilmed camp newsletters and camp inspection reports,
manuscript materials, and photographs for additional information about the
Civilian Conservation Corp, its employees, and its projects.
Detailed Description of the Collection
The following section contains a detailed listing of the materials in
the collection.
OH 1194: Barbour, C.R. “Bob,”
(narrator)
2 cassettes (42
leaves)
Before joining the Forest Service to watch for fires and do trail
work, Bob Barbour worked at an orchard doing a variety of farm work. Hired as a
foreman for the CCC crew with the beginning of the CCC program, Barbour worked
with a crew of city boys from New York and New Jersey and encountered a variety
of difficulties in training them for forest work and road building. He compared
the Eastern boys unfavorably with locals and said the Westerners were much
harder workers. Barbour described his life in remote locations after returning
to wilderness patrol after his year with the CCC. Interviewed by Linda Morton-Keithley on 13 July 1993 under the
auspices of the Idaho State Historical Society as part of the Civilian
Conservation Corps (CCC) Oral History Project.
13
July 1993
OH 1195: Blood, Fred, (narrator)
1 cassette (27
leaves)
Fred Blood joined the CCC in 1935 after graduating from high
school. Initially employed doing blister rust work, Blood later became a cook.
Interview topics included details of food preparation, the logistics of
ordering and storing supplies, available educational activities, practical
jokes played on camp mates, camp and work discipline, and the difficulties
encountered by New Jersey enrollees in adjusting to a rural environment,
particularly fire fighting. Interviewed by Linda Morton-Keithley on 26 Aug. 1993 under the
auspices of the Idaho State Historical Society as part of the Civilian
Conservation Corps (CCC) Oral History Project.
26
Aug. 1993
OH 1196: Earling, Virgil,
(narrator)
1 cassette (21
leaves)
Virgil Earling worked for the CCC from 1936 to 1940, when an
accident forced him to quit. Earling worked a variety of jobs, including manual
labor, baking, office work, and driving a truck. On the side, he altered
clothes for camp enrollees for a small fee. Interview topics also included the
camp educational program, where Earling learned civil engineering, sports
matches between camps, available medical care, and the layout of his camp.Interviewed by Linda Morton-Keithley on 26 Aug. 1993 under the
auspices of the Idaho State Historical Society as part of the Civilian
Conservation Corps (CCC) Oral History Project.
26
Aug. 1993
OH 1197: Fenstermacher, Nelson,
(narrator)
1 cassette (25
leaves)
Nelson Fenstermacher joined the CCC in 1933 to get out of the
illegal business of running bootleg whiskey. After serving a six-month term in
California and returning to Ohio due to homesickness, Fenstermacher signed up
again and was assigned to a soil conservation camp in Moscow, Idaho. During his
time in the CCC, he supervised a dynamite crew as a lead man and learned
mechanics, a skill he continued to use in civilian life. Other interview topics
included details of the soil conservation program, fights between University of
Idaho football players and enrollees, some racial issues Fenstermacher
encountered in the California camp, the diversity of his own camp, which was
largely from the Midwest, and his learning experiences in meeting the
challenges of camp work.Interviewed by Lauren McCroskey on 26 Aug. 1993 under the auspices
of the Idaho State Historical Society as part of the Civilian Conservation
Corps (CCC) Oral History Project.
26
Aug. 1993
OH 1198: Hart, Kenneth,
(narrator)
1 cassette (21
leaves)
Kenneth Hart signed up with the CCC after doing some farm work.
Within his CCC camp, Hart worked his way up to assistant leader and did a
variety of manual labor, including logging, road construction, and fire
fighting. Interview topics included the structure and amenities of his camp,
available school courses and sports activities, details of work done, work
accidents, and interaction with other camps.Interviewed by Lauren McCroskey on 26 Aug. 1993 under the auspices
of the Idaho State Historical Society as part of the Civilian Conservation
Corps (CCC) Oral History Project.
26
Aug. 1993
OH 1199: Kellner, Milsen,
(narrator)
1 cassette (17
leaves)
Milsen Kellner joined the CCC due to job scarcity. Initially
assigned to work in a rock quarry, Kellner was soon reassigned to the kitchen
where he worked his way up to cook. Topics included typical meals prepared;
logistical details pertaining to scheduling, food preparation, and budgeting
supplies; educational courses taken; leisure activities; practical jokes among
the enrollees; and conflicts between loggers and enrollees when in town.
Kellner continued to use his cooking skills after enlisting in the Army in 1940
and later as a civilian before becoming a plumber. Interviewed by Linda Morton-Keithley on 27 Aug. 1993 under the
auspices of the Idaho State Historical Society as part of the Civilian
Conservation Corps (CCC) Oral History Project.
27
Aug. 1993
OH 1200: Pfeiffer, Clyde M.,
(narrator)
1 cassette (15
leaves)
Clyde Pfeiffer decided to join the CCC after becoming acquainted
with some enrollees from a local New York camp. After being assigned to an
all-Idaho camp in Chatcolet Pfeiffer worked in the woods, cutting cord wood and
selling it in town. Later he worked in a blacksmith shop doing odd jobs and
learning to work with metal. Other interview topics included the CCC military
structure and discipline, fire fighting by CCC enrollees, the camaraderie among
CCC boys, leisure activities, and medical care available at camp.Interviewed by Linda Morton-Keithley on 26 Aug. 1993 under the
auspices of the Idaho State Historical Society as part of the Civilian
Conservation Corps (CCC) Oral History Project.
26
Aug. 1993
OH 1201: Williams, Clifford,
(narrator)
1 cassette (23
leaves)
Clifford Williams joined the CCC due to the scarcity of available
jobs in 1934. He was located near Lewiston, Riggins, and Boise throughout his
enrollment and worked in trail building and cutting timber, as well as working
as a clerk and truck driver. Other topics included a description of a typical
camp, socializing between CCC camps, and leisure activities. After leaving the
CCC, Williams went to Lewiston Normal School, became a school teacher, and was
in the Coast Guard during World War II. Interviewed by Lauren McCroskey on 27 Aug. 1993 under the auspices
of the Idaho State Historical Society as part of the Civilian Conservation
Corps (CCC) Oral History Project.
27
Aug. 1993
OH 1202: Wozny, Raymond,
(narrator)
1 cassette (19
leaves)
Raymond Wozny enlisted with the CCC in 1937 and again in 1938
after having limited success at going back to school. He worked as assistant
crew leader building fences, pouring foundations, fighting fires, and even
doing dike work during a flood. He described a typical day in the CCC and
off-duty activities. Many members of his all-Idaho camp went home on weekends.
He also mentioned a nearby New York camp whose enrollees were afraid of
fighting fires and the existence of an all colored camp nearby.Interviewed by Lauren McCroskey on 26 Aug. 1993 under the auspices
of the Idaho State Historical Society as part of the Civilian Conservation
Corps (CCC) Oral History Project.
26
Aug. 1993
OH 1209: Rhodes, Kenneth,
(narrator)
1 cassette (23
leaves)
Kenneth Rhodes remembered joining the CCC around 1934 after
determining he did not want to be farmer. After becoming ill from the powder
used in construction, he was assigned to cooking and quickly advanced to first
cook. Rhodes described purchasing groceries, the division of labor in preparing
camp food, writing menus, and cooking for the officers. A member of a camp that
consisted of Idahoans and other Westerners, Rhodes’ only experience with
minorities was with Italian New Yorkers who “didn’t know dirt from a tree.”
Other topics included the discipline structure of the camps and the work
performed at the various construction sites of the CCC. After 1944, Rhodes
worked in a saw mill and joined the Marines in 1964.Interviewed by Sandra Hansen on 19 Apr. 1994 under the auspices of
the Idaho State Historical Society as part of the Civilian Conservation Corps
(CCC) Oral History Project.
19
Apr. 1994
OH 1210: Enslow, Charles,
(narrator)
2 cassettes (25
leaves)
Charles Enslow remembered building wooden furniture with his
father during his childhood in Boise. He joined the CCC in 1935 because he was
too skinny to enlist in the Navy. Enslow worked as a blaster handling
explosives and rapidly advanced in the ranks to become a leader. Interview
topics included CCC wages, blasting safety and accidents, camp discipline, and
Enslow’s efforts at building furniture for the camp recreation hall.Interviewed by Linda Morton-Keithley on 28 Feb. 1994 under the
auspices of the Idaho State Historical Society as part of the Civilian
Conservation Corps (CCC) Oral History Project.
28
Feb. 1994
OH 1243: Payne, Holland,
(narrator)
2 cassettes (43
leaves)
Holland Payne enlisted with the CCC in 1936 to make a better
living after supporting his parents and himself on paper routes. He described
the enlistment process, the four-day train ride to Idaho, the local
rattlesnakes and their uses as food and belts, his work as a teacher assistant
and clerk in a camp of Midwesterners, and recreation activities for enrollees
such as sports, dances in Ketchum, and the Boise red light district. Payne was
especially interested in baseball and was active as a writer and editor of the
camp newsletter and a contributor of articles to the local papers. After the
CCC, Payne attended college, married, and joined the Navy.Interviewed by William Tydeman on 13 July 1994 under the auspices
of the Idaho State Historical Society as part of the Civilian Conservation
Corps (CCC) Oral History Project.
13
July 1994
OH 1244: McConnell, Harold A.,
(narrator)
2 cassettes (39
leaves)
Harold McConnell talked of his life as a CCC enrollee between 1934
and 1942 and his Army experience doing maintenance and repair beginning in
1942. Citing the scarcity of jobs McConnell joined the CCC with several
friends, all from Idaho. He described the hard manual labor done by his camp,
which consisted of Idahoans, and contrasted their work ethic with a problem
camp of quarrelsome New Yorkers. Other topics include a prostitute called
Diamond Tooth Lil and typical recreation opportunities for CCC enrollees such
as card playing, the camp library, gambling, prospecting for gold, or visiting
Salmon’s three dance halls. Interviewed by William Tydeman on 6 Aug. 1993 under the auspices
of the Idaho State Historical Society as part of the Civilian Conservation
Corps (CCC) Oral History Project.
6
Aug. 1993
OH 1245: Sexton, Cramer,
(narrator)
2 cassettes (70
leaves)
Cramer Sexton related his experiences as a CCC enrollee in Boise
from 1939 to 1941 and as a soldier in Europe during World War II. Topics
included his early life on a farm, his train trip west, his various jobs in the
CCC, his impressions of Boise, a description of enrollees’ quarters and CCC
camp structure, as well as available recreation activities, building the Lake
Lowell dam, and the economies of Idaho, Tennessee, and Ohio when Sexton
enrolled. Drafted into the army, Sexton served in England, France, and Germany
during World War II and described his battle experiences, including an
unexpected reunion with an army friend he had believed dead.Interviewed by Linda Morton-Keithley on 27 Oct. 1992 under the
auspices of the Idaho State Historical Society as part of the Civilian
Conservation Corps (CCC) Oral History Project.
27
Oct. 1992
OH 1246: Kurdy, John, (narrator)
1 cassette (37
leaves)
John Kurdy discussed his experiences as a Civilian Conservation
Corps (CCC) company commander at several different Grazing Service camps in
Utah and Idaho from 1937 to 1942. As the man in charge of the camp outside of
work hours, Kurdy described the people who helped him run the camp. Topics
mentioned included leisure activities, the difference in the discipline and
education levels of eastern and western boys, the benefits CCC enrollees reaped
from their experience, both in terms of pay and training and in terms of
personal growth. According to Kurdy, many CCC enrollees were drafted for World
War II and did well due to their prior experience in the CCC. Interviewed by Susan Karaba on 1 Apr. 1993 under the auspices of
the Idaho State Historical Society as part of the Civilian Conservation Corps
(CCC) Oral History Project.
1
Apr. 1993
OH 1254: Lormar, Cyril
(narrator)
1 cassette (26
leaves)
Cyril Lormar discussed his experiences as a Civilian Conservation
Corps (CCC) employee beginning in 1932. As a native Idahoan, Lormar took a
leading role in a camp consisting largely of Easterners inexperienced with
manual labor. Topics included leisure activities, camp work and the equipment
used in building roads and bridges, problems with wildlife, camp enrollees’ pay
and other benefits, and their personal growth during their enrollment.Interviewed by Tracy Stephens on 8 Apr. 1993 under the auspices of
the Idaho State Historical Society as part of the Civilian Conservation Corps
(CCC) Oral History Project.
8
Apr. 1993
OH 1255: Berry, Max, (narrator)
2 cassettes (41
leaves)
Max Berry discussed his experiences in the Civilian Conservation
Corps (CCC) from 1936 to 1941. He served in Emmett, Kuna/Meridian and Boise.
Berry talked about his job assignment in food management, leisure activities,
prejudices in Emmett due to the rape-murder of a local girl by a camp enrollee,
his work as a truck driver delivering supplies to CCC camps, and his later work
after CCC dissolved. Berry also listed a number of CCC camps in the Boise area,
spoke of the reasons people enrolled, the benefits he himself reaped from the
experience, and the reasons why many CCC enrollees were dishonorably
dischargedInterviewed by Tracy Stephens on 19 Apr. 1993 under the auspices
of the Idaho State Historical Society as part of the Civilian Conservation
Corps (CCC) Oral History Project.
19
Apr. 1993
OH 1256: Anderson, Albert “Andy,”
(narrator)
3 cassettes (66
leaves)
Andy Anderson discussed his experiences as an educational advisor
for the Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) in Idaho, Wyoming, and Oregon from
1935 to 1942. Anderson detailed his efforts to find competent instructors and
good materials for the CCC boys, while developing curricula that were helpful
to them. Other topics included differences between the cultures of the East and
West United States, former camp enrollees joining the military during World War
II, leisure activities and sports competitions, special challenges in camp
life, and the military style management of the camps.Interviewed by Linda Morton-Keithley on 27 Sept. 1995 under the
auspices of the Idaho State Historical Society as part of the Civilian
Conservation Corps (CCC) Oral History Project.
27
Sept. 1995
OH 2136: Eddy, Albert “A. J.”
(narrator)
2 cassettes
A.J. Eddy spoke of his Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC)
experiences during the 1930s and 1940s. Initially from New Jersey, Eddy served
in Milford, Delaware for a year working in mosquito control and the camp
infirmary, before moving West with his company to work in Idaho and Montana
driving a truck. Other interviews topics included: classes taken through the
CCC, some difficulties with a supervising officer, and the lack of
opportunities for entertainment and socializing. After living in Montana for a
few years and getting married, Eddy re-enrolled as a sergeant, serving a total
of six years.Interviewed by Linda Morton-Keithley on 14 Apr. 1995 under the
auspices of the Idaho State Historical Society as part of the Civilian
Conservation Corps (CCC) Oral History Project.
Doug Eier, Archie DeGraf, Don Sly, and Don Williams discussed
their Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) experiences during the 1930s and 1940s.
Topics discussed included various Western camps, camp amenities, recreation
activities, agencies involved in running CCC camps, minorities in CCC camps,
relationship with local communities, camp pets, practical jokes, camp
discipline, and reasons for discharge.Interviewed by Linda Morton-Keithley on 5 Oct. 1995 under the
auspices of the Idaho State Historical Society as part of the Civilian
Conservation Corps (CCC) Oral History Project.
5
Oct. 1995
OH 2138: Seavey, Bob, (narrator)
2 cassettes
Bob Seavey joined the Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) after
growing up in Boise and working at the Chinese Gardens. He belonged to the
Idaho camp that built the road to Arrowrock Dam. Seavey worked in the kitchen
after becoming ill doing road work and seeding. He described details of food
preparation, the camp’s work, and extra-curricular activities. After serving a
six-month term, Seavey returned to doing odd jobs in Garden City. The interview
included his experiences with a sizeable Chinese community during the 1930s and
1940s.Interviewed by Linda Morton-Keithley on 20 Jan. 1994 under the
auspices of the Idaho State Historical Society as part of the Civilian
Conservation Corps (CCC) Oral History Project.
20
Jan. 1994
OH 2139: Sterbenz, Edwin,
(narrator)
1 cassette
Edwin Sterbenz offered his memories of his time enrolled in the
Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC), as well as other aspects of his life. Hall
enrolled in the CCC in 1939 after working as a vegetable peddler in Wichita,
Kansas. Topics included his experiences with a road building camp in Pierce,
Idaho, other nearby camps, camp structure, work accidents, and his personal
transformation due to the program. Hall also remembered training with the Army
during World War II and credited many of his later successes to his learning
experiences in the CCC.Interviewed by Tracy Stephens on 3 May 1993 under the auspices of
the Idaho State Historical Society as part of the Civilian Conservation Corps
(CCC) Oral History Project.
3 May
1993
OH 2146: Hall, Arthur,
(narrator)
1 cassette
Arthur Hall joined the Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) around
1934 and served for two years at the French Creek camp north of Burgdorf,
Idaho. Initially assigned to a road crew, where he cut fire wood and ran a jack
hammer, Hall got dust pneumonia. After recovering, Hall was put in charge of
medical supplies for the camps in the Boise district. He discussed the uneasy
relationship between his mostly Northwestern camp and a nearby camp with
enrollees from the East. Topics also included medical problems, medical
services for enrollees, and dance halls and other entertainment venues in Boise
like the Natatorium and “Danceland,” After the CCC, Hall joined the Boise,
Idaho, and Farragut Naval Training Stations. Hall also detailed his post-CCC
work as a carpenter in various shipyards, and his work in the construction of
Gowen Field.Interviewed by Linda Morton-Keithley on 5 Apr. 1995 under the
auspices of the Idaho State Historical Society as part of the Civilian
Conservation Corps (CCC) Oral History Project.
5
Apr. 1995
Subjects
This collection is indexed under the following headings in the online
catalog. Researchers desiring materials about related topics, persons, or
places should search the catalog using these headings.
Geographical Names :
Boise
(Idaho)
Boise (Idaho)--History--Sources
Cambridge (Idaho)--History--Sources
Chatcolet (Idaho)--History
Council (Idaho)--History--Sources
Idaho--History--Sources
Mesa (Idaho)--History--Sources
Moscow (Idaho)--History--Sources
Pierce (Idaho)
Subject Terms :
Arrowrock Dam
(Idaho)
Civilian Conservation Corps
(U.S.)--History--Sources
Civilian Conservation Corps
(U.S.)--Idaho
Civilian Conservation Corps
(U.S.)--Idaho--History
Civilian Conservation Corps
(U.S.)--Montana
Civilian Conservation Corps
(U.S.)--Oregon
Civilian Conservation Corps (U.S.)--Social
conditions